RCAF Sqdn 424, Halifax LW117 ???

[georgetanksherman]

Greetings everyone, hope all is well and wish everyone a Safe, Merry Christmas,

Have a querry on RCAF Squadron No. 424, H.P. Halifax LW117, while taking off from RAF Skipton on Swale for a bombing mission to Boulonge, the aircraft swung on takeoff and crashed, the crew was not injured. but I have seen accounts that the pilot was in the USAAF, but have named two different names, one was USAAF Flying Officer J. King and the other was USAAF Flying Officer J.G. Krzo. If anyone knows the correct warrior, I would appreciate it !

Cheers

George

[Temujin]

Greetings everyone, hope all is well and wish everyone a Safe, Merry Christmas,

Have a querry on RCAF Squadron No. 424, H.P. Halifax LW117, while taking off from RAF Skipton on Swale for a bombing mission to Boulonge, the aircraft swung on takeoff and crashed, the crew was not injured. but I have seen accounts that the pilot was in the USAAF, but have named two different names, one was USAAF Flying Officer J. King and the other was USAAF Flying Officer J.G. Krzo. If anyone knows the correct warrior, I would appreciate it !

Cheers

George

I’ve researched the above and Halifax LW117 did NOT, repeat did NOT fly on the mission. It was allocated as a SPARE AIRCRAFT for the mission, but from the Ops Records Books was NOT used.

16 aircraft were detailed for this mission, 15 took off and 1 A/C had a mechanical (does not say the issue). Ops Records Book do NOT records any crash. 11 A/C completed mission, 4 A/C aborted and brought bomb loads back. I A/C hit by flak and one crew member died.

F/O King was the A/C Captain of one aircraft, which was NOT lost on this mission, his aircraft aborted the mission and returned safety. I did not see a F/O J. G. Krio in the mission info.

I”ll post all the documents below so that you can review, and if I’ve missed something, or you’d like me to research other dates etc, please let me know

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[Temujin]

Follow up on the above, this record “DOES” say it swung off the runway……..Could this be the ‘mechanical” they were talking about in the other records

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BUT, the Ops Records do not show LW 117 as going on the mission, and they do not show that the two crews (F/O Keys and F/O Bonar) that did not go (you can see in the above posts that two crews are “x’d out” so those aircraft did not participate…….but my reading of the aircraft ID’s show two completely different aircraft.

Another note, one of the crew’s {F/O Bonar) HAD FLOWN, Halifax LW117, and is one of the “x’d out” crews. It was unusual for a crew to fly the same aircraft on each mission…..but it could be possible.

Also, I went though the rest of the month and LW 117 does NOT show up again……I will investigate further and is it shows up in another month???

In summary, so far their is nothing that I can confirm that LW 117 was the aircraft on the mission

[georgetanksherman]

Temujin,

On a good note at least you can see my confusion, throughout my research on Halifax LW117, I have seen F/O J. King as the pilot, F/O J.G. Keys as the pilot, and F/O J.G. Krzo as the pilot, at least I can see F/O J. King and F/O J.G. Keys were part of RCAF No. 424 Squadron, but where Aircrew Remembered got F/O Krzo from, I have not the foggiest.

Cheers

George

[Temujin]

Temujin,

On a good note at least you can see my confusion, throughout my research on Halifax LW117, I have seen F/O J. King as the pilot, F/O J.G. Keys as the pilot, and F/O J.G. Krzo as the pilot, at least I can see F/O J. King and F/O J.G. Keys were part of RCAF No. 424 Squadron, but where Aircrew Remembered got F/O Krzo from, I have not the foggiest.

Cheers

George

George, I figured it out. I was able to find the Operations Records for RCAF Station Skipton on Swales

Whomever put together the original story had the WRONG aircraft.

So, the record below shows that it was indeed as the story goes, Halifax suddenly swerved and undercarriage collapse, but the Aircraft from 424 Squadron was code “G” for GEORGE.

Then when you look at the two aircraft that were “x’d out” on the records, G’ for GEORGE is shown, and it was ‘G’ MZ 802, F/O J. G. Keys and crew that crashed. NOTE: Pilot - F/O James Grant Keys USAAF (T/223101) Was the American pilot on this mission: Below is all the records that explain this

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[Temujin]

The Morning Call
Allentown, Pennsylvania
30 Mar 1943, Tue • Page 17

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The Morning Call
Allentown, Pennsylvania
27 Nov 1941, Thu • Page 7

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The Morning Call
Allentown, Pennsylvania
27 Sep 1945, Thu • Page 6

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The Morning Call
Allentown, Pennsylvania
22 Apr 1942, Wed • Page 12

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The Sentinel
Carlisle, Pennsylvania
03 Nov 2001, Sat • Page 4

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[Temujin]

HOLD ON ALL OF THE ABOVE

I found MORE information that now DOESN’T CONFIRM all of the above……

REASON, F/O Keys and Crew FLEW MZ 802 on the next mission, 20 Sept 1944……….so it couldn’t have been his aircraft that crash

UNLESS……the damage was repairable in just a few day, which I don’t this its possible (undercarriage collapsed) so the undercarriage, props, motors etc may all have been damaged……..AND the record says it was a WRITE OFF…….so whatever aircraft it was, it was a wreck……….so NOW did this crew take the SPARE LW 117…….my gut says NO, I do not think a crew that just went through a ground crash could get up, walk to a new aircraft and take off…..and LW 117 is NOT mentioned as going

So, back to “square one” on this on George…….I’m working on it. NOW I’m thinking MAYBE this is the aircraft that had the “Mechanical” (as said in the 424 Squadron Ops Records) and it possible was the OTHER aircraft which I ‘think’ says MZ 310……but I need to check further

The 424 Squadron Ops Record does NOT include LW117 in the mission…….so this one is driving me crazy George……I’m still looking

Here’s the records that shows Keys and MZ 802 flying on the 20th

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[Temujin]

George………this one is a REALLY TOUGH ONE to figure out….

I’ve gone thru all the records, matched Aircraft codes with Serial Numbers, counted, double checked, looked at records BEFORE the 17th Mission and AFTER the 17th Mission…………and at the end here is what I know (from these records)

FACT 1: - Operation No 106

424 Squadron reports the following aircraft went ON the mission

Code D, E, J, L, M, N, Q, U, V, W, X, B, A, P, S

424 Squadron Reports the following aircraft RETURNED (ABORTED) Mission

Code A, D, P, S

Skipton on Swale Ops Report the following aircraft went ON the mission (completed the mission

Code E, J, L, M, N, Q, U, V, W, X

Skipton on Swale Ops Report the following aicraft RETURNED (ABORTED) Mission

Code A, B, P, S

Skipton on Swale Ops Report aircraft CODE G, crashed on takeoff (no crew injured)

Summary: so from the above we have a couple of discrepancies. Mix up on “aircraft that completed and aborted mission”. 424 Squadron do NOT confirm which aircraft crashed……they just say one aircraft had a “mechanical issue” and did not take off. When comparing lists both add up to 15 aircraft ON the mission, 4 aircraft RETURNING (ABORT), leaving 11 Aircraft COMPLETED MISSION

In ALL of the above, neither 424 or Skipton on Swale report aircraft “K” LW117 was on this mission, or crashed, or had a mechanical etc.

Fact 2:

Skipton on Swales reports what happened in the ground crash (assuming its “G” MZ 802) and it reports the aircraft was a “write off” (non fly able, piece of junk, going to the scrap yard…..sorry these are my words)

424 Squadron records show “G” MZ 802 “scratched out” on their records meaning it was NOT on the mission (and NO mission report)
424 Squadron records show “H” HX 316 “ scratched out” on their records meaning it was NOT on the mission (and NO mission report)

Fact 3:

The ONLY American was Flying Officer Keys who was Captain of “G” MZ 802 which DID NOT flying on this mission (assuming it was the ground crash)

Fact 4:

THE NEXT MISSION, which was OPERATION NO 107

This Shows “G” MZ 802 as FLYING on this mission, with Flying Officer Keys?????? So the Report from Skipton on Swale that Aircraft Code ‘G’ was the one that ground crashed. May be incorrect????

Fact 5:

I’ve checked the next missions and I do NOT see any missions with ‘K’ LW117 BUT…….on the mission on the 25th Sep 1944………a “NEW” Aircraft Coded ‘K’ MZ 376 shows up………As normally in RCAF service they “re-use” the Code letters after a previsous aircraft has crashed or taken out of service……So this is telling me the “K’ LW 117 has been removed from service with 424 Squadron and replaced with a new aircraft………does this mean that LW 117 is the “crashed” aircraft, or it has just been taken out of service?????

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Fact 6:

‘G’ MZ 802 is lost in action on the 9th Oct 1944……….which confirms that this aircraft could NOT have been the aircraft that ground crashed on the 17 Sept 1944 as reported by Skipton on Swale……….

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SO, I’m going to check other records, but right now I have NO confirmation on the correct aircraft the ground crashed on the 17 Sep 1944


I just finished going thru 433 Squadron RCAF records. 433 and 424 Squadron “shared” the airfield at Skipton on Swale……..their is nothing in the records indicating any crash on the 17 (they also took off that day on missions)…….and nothing saying they lost an aircraft at the RCAF Station…..so nothing to help me confirm anything about LW117???

[Temujin]

Just downloaded 424 Squadron RCAF Sept 1944 records from British National Archives. They give me “nothing new”……but as these copies are “clearer” than the RCAF copies at LAC I was able to “double confirm” Aircraft Codes and numbers

BUT, the British copies do NOT have the corrections made to the originals that the RCAF HQ’s copies have…….so basically these copies do not add any new information

[Temujin]

Just checked 63 Base, RCAF (this is the HQ’s Unit that 424 Squadron reported to, and record has nothing new. Indicates 424 squadron has assigned 16 a/c to the mission but ONE, “swung” on the runway and didn’t take off?? I was hoping they would identify the aircraft???

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