Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Discussions related to researching soldiers of the second world war.
alberk
Assistant
Assistant
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:08 am
Commendations: 0

Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by alberk » Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:33 am

In "Out of the Clouds" (1984) - a book which tells the story of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion - it is suggested that a Pte. P- Martin was MIA after Operation Varsity and a Pte M C Meyer suffered injuries during Varsity and later died of wounds. I found a P. Martin (L 101224 / C-Coy) on a nominal roll posted by Temujin on this forum. However, no trace of M C Meyer on that list - which appears to be incomplete (?). My question: There is no trace of those casualties in the CWGC database, they are not listed as casualties anywhere else - would you say that the author of "Out of the Clouds" was somewhat misinformed? As to the MIA case - he might initially have been listed under that category but could have turned up later, after being liberated from a German POW camp. What do you think?

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:53 pm

alberk wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:33 am
In "Out of the Clouds" (1984) - a book which tells the story of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion - it is suggested that a Pte. P- Martin was MIA after Operation Varsity and a Pte M C Meyer suffered injuries during Varsity and later died of wounds. I found a P. Martin (L 101224 / C-Coy) on a nominal roll posted by Temujin on this forum. However, no trace of M C Meyer on that list - which appears to be incomplete (?). My question: There is no trace of those casualties in the CWGC database, they are not listed as casualties anywhere else - would you say that the author of "Out of the Clouds" was somewhat misinformed? As to the MIA case - he might initially have been listed under that category but could have turned up later, after being liberated from a German POW camp. What do you think?
I’ll have a look for you. Your remarks on Pte P Martin may be correct, originally mentioned as MIA then is report a POW so he doesn’t show up a casualty.

I’ll look to see what I can find for you

Cheers

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:15 pm

So far, all I’ve found is Pte P Martins name confirming he parachuted in on 5 Jun. I can’t find Meyer’s name on any list I have so far. I also have lots of file on the Battalion (which you may already have). If you wish to share your e-mail on PM with me, I can send you everything I have
2C1876EC-28B9-4A7D-9BFD-4869FA9933B1.jpeg
2C1876EC-28B9-4A7D-9BFD-4869FA9933B1.jpeg (756.4 KiB) Viewed 4719 times

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:20 pm


User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:26 pm

Here are the War Dairies of the Battalion in LAC. You can download each of the months at this link. They are large files and do take time to download

https://recherche-collection-search.bac ... ber=928089

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:03 pm

P Martin on Jan 1945 Nominal Roll in ‘A’ Company
50040468-D62D-41F4-B50B-6ECF897FC95D.jpeg
50040468-D62D-41F4-B50B-6ECF897FC95D.jpeg (565.41 KiB) Viewed 4715 times
60D16A0E-2A3A-4EFB-9B91-6CD3E26DAF1F.jpeg
60D16A0E-2A3A-4EFB-9B91-6CD3E26DAF1F.jpeg (562.44 KiB) Viewed 4715 times

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:01 am

Albert, I found the casualty records of the 1st Cdn Parachute Battalion. At the end of the war in May 1945, every unit of the Canadian Forces was send a list of every recorded casualty in the unit. Units were asked to review the list and report any discrepancies. The list include all casualties, and how they died, were wounded, POW’s etc etc.

Below is the “chart” that they used to tell what each man had, it was possible for men to be on the list more than once, eg for multiple wounds, or if wounded, captured, POW, died of wounds while a POW etc etc.

I have found PTE PAUL MARTIN, he is on the list twice, once for “missing” and once for “wounded”…

Second, I cannot find ANY man by the name Pte M C Meyer in any record, the only record I found was for a RICHARD L MEYER that I have included below, and was wounded, but did NOT die. So your reference may have the name of the wrong man, or the reference did NOT exist in the Battalion

To read the columns below, the FIRST COLUMN AFTER the number 9901 is the CASUALTY NO, so this number tells what type of casualty they were, eg ‘wounded’, ‘missing’, ‘POW’, Died of wounds etc etc etc
72DE1A4B-9D0F-4B37-B503-419CCF017D38.jpeg
72DE1A4B-9D0F-4B37-B503-419CCF017D38.jpeg (863.86 KiB) Viewed 4705 times
The record below shows the Pte Paul Martin:
The first record say 03 = WOUNDED, and the date was 7 6 4 = 7 Jun 1944
The second record says 04 = MISSING, and the date was 24 3 5 = 24 Mar 1945
6B400D0F-C990-46EE-9CD4-77CF8B3CA071.jpeg
6B400D0F-C990-46EE-9CD4-77CF8B3CA071.jpeg (596.29 KiB) Viewed 4705 times
The record below shows Pte Richard L Meyer
The records say 03 = WOUNDED, and the date was 24 3 5 = 24 Mar 1945
DF34D2BF-0174-4440-8991-D506C12AE71D.jpeg
DF34D2BF-0174-4440-8991-D506C12AE71D.jpeg (595.99 KiB) Viewed 4705 times
Any other questions let me know, I’ll try to see if I can spot any info in the WD’s on the above info

alberk
Assistant
Assistant
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:08 am
Commendations: 0

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by alberk » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:15 am

Hello Temujin,

thank you very much - that is great information and the sources you added are much appreciated. Amazing what these forums (I am including WW2talk) and their active members have to offer for fellow researchers. But it always takes members who invest some time and energy into this...

I would like to follow up with one more question. Obviously, the May 1945 list you included cannot tell us who died of wounds after that date. What would the policy of the gouvernment and the CWGC be regarding men who died of wounds or related complications in the months or years after the war? Would they be listed by the CWGC and be honoured with a soldier's grave an headstone in a military graveyard? I suppose there must have been some cases like that. I am asking because the case of Pte Meyer is not quite settled yet - we have no information whether he died of wounds after May 1945.

With best regards
Alex

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:05 am

alberk wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:15 am
Hello Temujin,

thank you very much - that is great information and the sources you added are much appreciated. Amazing what these forums (I am including WW2talk) and their active members have to offer for fellow researchers. But it always takes members who invest some time and energy into this...

I would like to follow up with one more question. Obviously, the May 1945 list you included cannot tell us who died of wounds after that date. What would the policy of the gouvernment and the CWGC be regarding men who died of wounds or related complications in the months or years after the war? Would they be listed by the CWGC and be honoured with a soldier's grave an headstone in a military graveyard? I suppose there must have been some cases like that. I am asking because the case of Pte Meyer is not quite settled yet - we have no information whether he died of wounds after May 1945.

With best regards
Alex
Good question Alex. The Canadian Government tracked all casualties until 1947…..that was the “cut off date”. Men or women who were wounded or who died of wounds after that date were still considered “Second World War Casualties” and were included in the lists of our war dead. BUT I do NOT know if the Army completed similar lists to the MAY 1945 lists to track casualties, I would assume they did but I do not know

This database includes 44,090 references to the files of the following individuals who died between 1939 and 1947:

those killed in action
those who died as a result of accident or illness while in service
those who subsequently died of injuries related to service

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/ ... -dead.aspx

In regards to PTE MEYER, as I indicated I could find no record of a M.C. Meyer, but DID FIND a record of R.L. MEYER. I will check further and see if R.L. MEYER Died of Wounds or is another record on him

Cheers

User avatar
Temujin
Meritorious
Meritorious
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:39 pm
Commendations: 137

Re: Fate of two soldiers of 1 CPB

Post by Temujin » Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:40 am

Found this
A9BC5C46-710C-455F-B1C9-7244AB796B72.jpeg
A9BC5C46-710C-455F-B1C9-7244AB796B72.jpeg (308.31 KiB) Viewed 4682 times

Post Reply