Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

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georgetanksherman
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Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by georgetanksherman » Thu May 02, 2019 12:45 pm

Researching RCAF 412 Squadron I came across 2 incidents where Spitfire MJ136 was lost in crashes, I looked at "Aircrew Remembered" and "Spitfire Pilots and Aircraft" with no help, both pilots are from RCAF 412 Squadron, I have:

F/O J.S. Hamilton RCAF, on 11 May 1944, with a mid-air with MH427 over Pas-de-Calais, France both pilots rescued
and
P/O D.R.C. Jamieson, RCAF on 10 June 1944, aircraft crashed over Tilly-sur-Seine, France

I am sure one of them is a typo ! any help would be appreciated !

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 1:43 pm

georgetanksherman wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:45 pm
F/O J.S. Hamilton RCAF, on 11 May 1944, with a mid-air with MH427 over Pas-de-Calais, France both pilots rescued
A8F30FB1-FF79-4C79-AF33-D908A6A957DF.jpeg
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F674EA01-CD3C-4E7E-B087-3DE93B88F573.jpeg (268.18 KiB) Viewed 5006 times

NOTE: George, checked thru the records BEFORE this crash and MJ 136 shows up multiple times......so this records seems correct

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 1:55 pm

georgetanksherman wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:45 pm
P/O D.R.C. Jamieson, RCAF on 10 June 1944, aircraft crashed over Tilly-sur-Seine, France
6AED7364-FC1C-4CBD-83C5-F1659BF140FB.jpeg
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NOTE: George, checked thru the records BEFORE this crash and MJ 136 shows up multiple times......AND so this records seems correct ALSO, Not sure whats going on

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 2:14 pm

Spitfire production list shows it was involved in the “mid air”

Source: http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/_prodn%20list.txt
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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 2:26 pm

So, I’ve looked thru the records....and MJ 136 shows up in BOTH months.......and being flown BEFORE each of the ‘crashes”........so if its a “typo”....the typo’d many many times........

At first I thought that maybe it made it back on the first “crash”........and it ALMOST did, but the pilot “bailed out” when reaching England (or just before).......so I don’t think the recovered the aircraft, repaired it, and flew it the next month......

So, this IS a mystery George

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 3:21 pm

A follow up George. All the maintenance records etc for the aircraft that were with the Squadron should be held at Library and Archives Canada.

Here’s a link to “what I think” is the appropriate record. As these are not digitized and on line, the only way to see these records if by visiting LAC in Ottawa to see the records, or hire a private researcher to find them for you

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_arch ... 38,5030407

The above record holds:

Progress reports No. 412 Sqn [Squadron] RCAF [Royal Canadian Air Force] 12 Jan 43 to 28 Feb 46 - Record of sqn ops [squadron operations] activity, info [information] re [regarding]: trg [training], movements, admin [administrative] changes, honours and awards, personnel, a/c [aircraft] strength and serviceability.


OR, this record

http://collectionscanada.gc.ca/pam_arch ... 38,5030407

RAF [Royal Air Force] form 765 A - "Operational statistical summary" for No. 412 Fighter Sqn [Squadron] (RCAF [Royal Canadian Air Force]), covering period 1 to 30 Nov 1941 - Gives daily record of aircraft and personnel strength, hours flown, establishments.

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 3:35 pm

Temujin wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:55 pm
8742096E-A3A2-4BAD-B6DC-01695C3B2D95.jpeg
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Note of interest George, if you look down the record I posted previously, you will see aircraft MJ255 crash landed the next day on the 11th Jun (I thought this may have been the confusion......but it’s not).

I found a photo of this aircraft after it crash landed........just for interest
5A3A55EB-B06B-4FEB-9ECF-F6B43343F21A.jpeg
5A3A55EB-B06B-4FEB-9ECF-F6B43343F21A.jpeg (61.59 KiB) Viewed 5000 times
Supermarine Spitfire Mk. IXE (Serial No. MJ255), coded VZ-S, No. 412 Squadron, RCAF, Tilly-sur-Seulles, Normandy, crashed on 11 June 1944, photo taken on 17 June 1944

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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by Temujin » Thu May 02, 2019 3:52 pm

Temujin wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:43 pm
georgetanksherman wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:45 pm
F/O J.S. Hamilton RCAF, on 11 May 1944, with a mid-air with MH427 over Pas-de-Calais, France both pilots rescued
A8F30FB1-FF79-4C79-AF33-D908A6A957DF.jpeg
F674EA01-CD3C-4E7E-B087-3DE93B88F573.jpeg


NOTE: George, checked thru the records BEFORE this crash and MJ 136 shows up multiple times......so this records seems correct

Another note of interest, F/O R.W. Thatcher, the pilot of the second aircraft that collided, was captured and a POW

POW No 5840. F/0 Thatcher, R.W. J15837

Name: R. W. Thatcher
Rank: F/O
Military Date: 1939-1945
Service Number: J.15837
Source Description: 1490: Stalag Luft III (Belaria): Nominal Roll of POWs and Recommendations for Meritorious Work
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Re: Spitfire MJ136, RCAF 412 Sqdn

Post by georgetanksherman » Thu May 02, 2019 9:06 pm

Yeah, that was my dilemma, how can an aircraft be in a mid-air collision, pilot abandon the aircraft over the channel and then 30 days later, the aircraft be back up in the air and have a forced landing due to a glycol leak ????

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