Help with Father-in-law's WWII Service Record

[alroch4]

I'm hoping someone can help me decode a few entries in my father-in-law's WWII service record. He was a private in the Canadian Armed Forces:

Entries #1:
• Struck-off-strength No. A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre
• Taken-off-strength No. 20 Canadian Army (Basic) Training Centre

Do this mean he went from the No. 20 Canadian Army (Basic) Training Centre in Brantford, Ontario to the A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre in Borden, Ontario?

Entries #2:
• Struck-off-strength to Serial 1908 Vernon BC
• Taken-off-strength from No. A10 Camp Borden
Does this mean he went to from the A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre in Borden, Ontario to Serial 1908 Vernon BC?
Does Serial 1908 mean #1 PITB Pacific Infantry Training Battalion?

Entries #3:
• Struck-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)
• Taken-on-strength X-List CIC (X-4 List "Unposted reinforcements”, Canadian Infantry Corps.) from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)

Does this mean he went to from the A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)to a ‘list’…just an administrative entry?

Entry #4:
What is this place? 2nd…?

Entries #5:
• Struck-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC) [HE]
• Taken-on-strength X-List CIC (X-4 List "Unposted reinforcements”, Canadian Infrantry Corps.) from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)

These look like similar entries as those in #3. Why?
What does HE mean?

Entry #6:
Is this location Brantford?

Entries #7:
• Struck-off-strength from 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF (Canadian Army Pacific Force)
• Taken-on-strength 23N1 CDN INF REG FROM A21

Does this mean he went from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC) to 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF?
What is 23N1?

Entries #8:
• Struck-off-strength from 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF (Canadian Army Pacific Force) to EMETC CA course
• Taken-on-strength from CAPF 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment

Does this mean he returned to the Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course in Brockville, Ontario from the unit in Vernon, BC?
Is this a different course than the one in Entries #3 and #5?

Entries #9:
• Struck-off-strength No 3 DD District Depot
• Taken-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course

Where was this No. 3 District Deport?

[Temujin]

I’ll try and help you on the above……..

What I will do is go on your post, and place my answers next to your questions……but some of your questions need more detail so I will post seperate info for those on this thread

Also, because there are so many questions…..others from the site may jump on and assist getting you all your answers, so you may see multiple posts from all of us

Cheers

[Temujin]

Where was this No. 3 District Deport?

I’m going to answer your very LAST question first, because it also is in the records (in the very FIRST posting in the records.

Military Districts in Canada in 1939 to 1946 were as per the diagram below

IMG_0061.jpeg (214.76 KiB) Viewed 22507 times

AND, the Districts were further broken down within the District for the Command of different major units. I’ve posted a second picture below that shows you the Breakdown of No 3 DD (No 3 District Depot)

IMG_0062.jpeg (253.13 KiB) Viewed 22507 times

Ref: https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organi ... tricts.htm

[Temujin]

I'm hoping someone can help me decode a few entries in my father-in-law's WWII service record. He was a private in the Canadian Armed Forces:

Entries #1:
• Struck-off-strength No. A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre
• Taken-off-strength No. 20 Canadian Army (Basic) Training Centre

Do this mean he went from the No. 20 Canadian Army (Basic) Training Centre in Brantford, Ontario to the A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre in Borden, Ontario?

First,
SOS - STRUCK OFF STRENGTH……..so this is when he LEFT a unit to go somewhere else

Second,
TOS - TAKEN ON STRENGTH……..so this means when he JOINED the new unit

And when he “moves” on the records, he is ALWAYS SOS first (leaves a unit), and TOS second (joins a unit) for every move (except the first entry, this is when he JOINED the Canadian Army…..so he walked into a recruiting station somewhere in No 3 DD and signed up and was TOS to No 3 DD

So the way you have written your first question is actually in the wrong order in the first two bullets

He was first sent to No 20 BTC (No 20 Basic Training Center)……call it “boot camp” where he first learns HOW to be a SOLDIER
Then he was sent to No 10 CITC (No 10 Canadian Infantry Training Center)…..more ADVANCED training to learn HOW to be a INFANTRY SOLDIER

And to answer your question, in the narrative you wrote, you are CORRECT, he went from No 20 BTC, Brantford to No 10 CITC, Borden

IMG_0064.jpeg (255.82 KiB) Viewed 22504 times

You can see he JOINED the Army but didn’t IMMEDIATELY head for BTC……this was normal as they enlisted new recruits, and the sent them on the NEXT AVAILABLE COURSE at BTC when they had enough numbers for that course. AND he got Christmas Leave in the middle of that training

So he was TOS to No 3 District Depot……then SOS form 3 District Depot to go to No 20 BTC…….then TOS at No 20 BTC from No 3 DD……..then was SOS from No 20 BTC to join No 10 CITC ……….and was TOS at No 10 CITC.

Sometimes these records do get “mixed” up so its important to read the DATES, to see “where he was when” so to speak

So you can see he was in Basic Training from the 8 Dec 1944 to the 3 Feb 1945

[Temujin]

Entries #2:
• Struck-off-strength to Serial 1908 Vernon BC
• Taken-off-strength from No. A10 Camp Borden
Does this mean he went to from the A10 Canadian Infantry Training Centre in Borden, Ontario to Serial 1908 Vernon BC?
Does Serial 1908 mean #1 PITB Pacific Infantry Training Battalion?

ENTRY #2 - YES, he was SOS (Struck OFF Strength) from No 10 CITC (Canadian Infantry Training Center) to Serial 1908 (this is probably the “training serial” he joined in Vernon)…….then he was TOS (Taken ON Strength) in Vernon. I have never seen the #1 PITB and it make sense that this could mean “Pacific Infantry Training Battalion” as his records to indicate he Volunteered for the Pacific Force. I will look more into this and see if I can confirm

IMG_0064.jpeg (158.18 KiB) Viewed 22498 times

Here is a link to basic info on the Canadian Army Pacific Force
https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organi ... cforce.htm

[Temujin]

Entries #3:
• Struck-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)
• Taken-on-strength X-List CIC (X-4 List "Unposted reinforcements”, Canadian Infantry Corps.) from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)

Does this mean he went to from the A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)to a ‘list’…just an administrative entry?

Entry #4:
What is this place? 2nd…?

Entries #5:
• Struck-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC) [HE]
• Taken-on-strength X-List CIC (X-4 List "Unposted reinforcements”, Canadian Infrantry Corps.) from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC)

These look like similar entries as those in #3. Why?
What does HE mean?

ENTRY #3 - yes, A21 was the Royal Canadian Ordnance Training Center located in Camp Barriefield, Ontario (just outside of Kingston). The RCOC was amalgamated with the RCEME later in the war so RCOC units became RCEME units………and as all his postings were LATER in the war, this transformation had (or was) taking place. WHY he was sent their is a good question as he was trained as an infantry soldier……BUT my guess is that he may have recieved training in Infantry Weapons Repair (rifes, Bren guns etc) and then he was posted BACK to a Infantry Regiment, most likely to repair or keep in shape the Battalions weapons (just a guess, but his records seem to indicate that

AND, yes, the X-4 list was an administrative list to record a man was “waiting” for posting to his next unit. Normally stayed where he was until he was notified where he was going.

ENTRY #4 - 2nd Echelon is an “administrative unit or function”……below is an attachment about “2nd Echelon” in WW2

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/theme ... mhq016.pdf

ENTRY #5 - you got this right…..that is what it is say. CIC is correct, Canadian Infantry Corps. By this I can tell he didn’t become a member of the RCOC or RCEME, he was still with the Infantry Corps……just getting some specialized training as I said above

AND they LOOK similar, but they are not. He was originally posted to CO&EMETC, and then posted to CO&EMETC (HE). But if you look at the dates, these are all again “adminstrative” move (within days of each other). Basically he was in Barriefield, but looks like his records being “sorted” out as he joins a specific sub-unit with CO&EMETC.

I’m sorry, I don’t know what HE means……..I’ll try to find out or maybe another member can enlighten us

IMG_0064.jpeg (174.41 KiB) Viewed 22493 times

[Temujin]

Entry #6:
Is this location Brantford?

Entries #7:
• Struck-off-strength from 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF (Canadian Army Pacific Force)
• Taken-on-strength 23N1 CDN INF REG FROM A21

Does this mean he went from A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course (COEMETC) to 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF?
What is 23N1?

Entries #8:
• Struck-off-strength from 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment CAPF (Canadian Army Pacific Force) to EMETC CA course
• Taken-on-strength from CAPF 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment

Does this mean he returned to the Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course in Brockville, Ontario from the unit in Vernon, BC?
Is this a different course than the one in Entries #3 and #5?

Entries #9:
• Struck-off-strength No 3 DD District Depot
• Taken-off-strength A21 Canadian Ordnance Electrical Mechanical Engineering Training Course

Where was this No. 3 District Deport?

ENTRY #6 - this was BARRIEFIELD, Ontario (Camp Barriefield) - just outside of Kingston. (I was stationed their during my career, know it well)

ENTRY #7 - you have it right in your narrative. The first is saying “SOS FROM A21 to 2nd Battalion, 1st Canadian Infantry Regiment, Canadian Army Pacific Force

The second is say “TOS from A21 to 2nd Battalions, Ist Canadian Infantry Regiment, CAPF

The entry says 2 BN (2nd Battalion) NOT 23BN……records are hard to read sometimes, especially the hand written parts.

PS. I’ve given you more info below on the actually UNIT he joined the the CAPF. You can also see by the links I gave you, that the CPAF was “modelled” after the AMERICAN MILITARY, as the Division was planned to fight alongside of AMERICAN’s in the Pacific and it was felt it was better to model their organization as AMERICAN GENERALS and other unit commander could then know what organization the CAPF looked like. The CAPF was also trained on American weapons and some American equipment LIKE (Helmets)…….that the Canadian Army subsequently adopted after WW2 (as our Army had purchased over 600,000 or these helmets……so my as well use them)

I wore an American Helmet in my career in the Canadian Army and it still have AMERICAN Markings stamped inside the metal helmet. In fact the Pistol holder I had on my web gear was also AMERICAN with a big US stamped on it (I was an Officer, so we were issued the 9mm pistol)

ENTRY #8 - Record say SOS he LEFT the 2nd Bn, 1st Cdn Inf Regiment to go TO A21. This seems to tell me the location of the 2nd Battalion was in Brockville, Ont………and he went to A21 which was in Barriefield Ontario.

This is what I’m assuming as I don’t have any records about the CAPF and where all the sub-units were stationed.

AND YES, this was a different course than the other entry’s ……..look at the dates……..again, it may have been “upgrade training” as they were now being trained and using AMERICAN WEAPONS, so needing more training to maintain them

ENTRY #9 - You have this one backwards. It tells us they where SOS from A21 to No 3 DD……….and then TOS to No 3 DD

And finally his demobilization for the Canada Army

IMG_0064.jpeg (317.95 KiB) Viewed 22486 times

More info on the Canadian Army Pacific Force for you:

IMG_0065.jpeg (87.1 KiB) Viewed 22486 times

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-nat ... force.html

[Temujin]

More info on the Canadian Army Pacific Force

These are snippets of pages out the reports, shows planning, training, manpower requirements and number of men who “elected” (all volunteer force) to join the Force, equipment, and other details. Link at bottom is to the report. PLEASE NOTE, that the report includes other things (like Cdn’s in the US Forces pre-CAPF) and mule transfers etc etc. You have to go to about the middle of the report to start seeing all the CAPFinformation

IMG_0066.jpeg (394.77 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0067.jpeg (462.07 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0068.jpeg (364.97 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0069.jpeg (414.53 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0070.jpeg (351.9 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0071.jpeg (638.74 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

IMG_0072.jpeg (473.28 KiB) Viewed 22477 times

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-nat ... force.html

[Temujin]

I think you did a very good job at deciphering his records, hope my info helped

IF YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, PLEASE ASK

We’re here to help in which ever way we can.

[alroch4]

I can't thank enough for taking the time to reply and educate me! I'll get the hang of these one of these days!